PopPHP with Nick Sagona

Hello developers, and welcome to the PHP Architect Community Corner, where we have conversations with members of the web development community. I'm your host, Scott Keck Warren, and today we're talking with Nick about his framework, PopPHP. Nick Sagona is the primary maintainer of the PopPHP framework and the CTO at BM4 Technology, a small shop located in New Orleans. The company is focused primarily on building solutions in the title and real estate industry. He's been working with PHP since the early 2000s and has really enjoyed having a front row seat to how the language has evolved over the past 20+ years. Like many, he was drawn to the low barrier to entry, but quickly came to appreciate how great it truly is. To solve common problems in his early career, he set forth creating a small library of reusable components. That library eventually grew into the POP PHP framework, and it's been the core of everything he's done in his career. It has allowed him to quickly build flexible and robust systems to provide solutions for the companies he's worked for over the years. When not writing PHP, he enjoys playing music and building amps. Thank you, Nick, for finding some time to talk to us today.

Yes, absolutely. So I think you, you kind of came across my, my feed because I saw something, I think in r/php about how there was a new release of your framework. Can you kind of Talk to us about how POP PHP is different than the other more, I'm gonna say, well-known frameworks and where it fits.

Yeah, absolutely. So I think that the thing I found really interesting about it when I was looking around is it says, On your homepage, it says no magic, just PHP. It's a framework built for people who want to see what their code is doing and just lean on the power of PHP. And I really think that's like an interesting concept because I, I primarily am a Laravel developer and, and there is a lot of that, like, well, this, this thing, we do this thing and then something magical happens and then the code essentially renders.

And like, we, we like, we're constantly fighting like routes and things in inside of our application to be like, okay, well, this route should be showing if it's this and it's this. And so there's all these, but we just like It's opaque to us. And so how has that been, why is that the forefront of your framework?

And I, so, and so like, I think like the, the thing I'm kind of used to is like a, like a full framework. And is, do you call this a micro framework or is it, or do you, do you have a different term for it?

Cause, and like, and I guess like my, my point was like, it's, it's cause there's, you know, there's like Laravel and Symfony, which are these massive things that have like a lot of learning to do. And, and like, this is nice because it's, it's much, much smaller. There's not so much there that like, you know, like I'm like a lot of times, like, I don't like the way Laravel does things. Or I don't like the way Symfony does things, so I do things my own way. And, and it's kind of nice because it's like—

Right. Yeah. And that's the problem. Um, I will probably never do that cuz that'll kill me. Um, but it's, but it's like that, that's the, the whole thing, right? Is like you have like a very basic set of, you know, database entry, routing. I'm trying to remember what all the different things were, but like, but it gets you started, but it doesn't, it doesn't do too much, I feel like.

And I think that's like the amazing thing about the open source community is like, there is, it's just so easy to say like, hey, I solved my problem. Hopefully it can help other people. And like, that's, that very much is what like all the frameworks essentially are, is like a very, you know, hey, we solve this problem so you guys don't have to. So I appreciate that, that you're kind of putting that out for everybody. Well, thank you. Yeah, so I had one question about naming for you. So why is it called Pop?

Yeah, that was actually one of the things I found really interesting reading through the documentation is it was called Kettle. And I was like, well, so is this all popcorn-based or what is it? But it is like a nice—

Yeah, I think so. I think so too. I think it's really kind of fun. I was like, I was like, that's a fun name for that. 'Cause I also have, I'm also in that boat of like, things are hard to name. Like I've gotten to the point where like all we had, we got a dog and so all of my things now I'm naming after dog concepts. And I'm just like, that's the easiest one to just pick a lane and just keep working your way down that way. Who do you think would be like the best use case for the POP PHP framework?

Okay.

And I think that's, that's been my like consensus looking at it is it does seem very like I could do something with it with like a small piece, you know what I mean? Like not a, you know, I could very quickly spin up an API server using it. Um, so, so do you, do you, when you have people that are, that are new that are coming to, uh, POP PHP, like do you, Is there common stumbling blocks that people have, or is it pretty easy to get onboarded?

You have some really like well, well-made documentation too. There is like a docs.popphp.org, which is probably like, there is a nice, like, what's new? How do you get started? Here are the basics. Here's how you access databases. So that's like very important to me as a person is to make, making sure that like most of those docs are already out there for people. Um, so docs, oh, it's the worst. It's like, honestly, I hate it. Um, so is, is there any way that the, like, what is it? What are ways that the community could help POP PHP, um, like expand essentially, or, or develop? What is it, what is it you're looking for? Do you need more developers or more people writing articles about it?

And then this is my last question before we kind of transition out, but is there any Are there any features that you're particularly proud of that like you get like, we're like, oh wow, I really nailed this?

Okay. It is a really interesting framework. And unfortunately I do have to bring this to a close. Is there something that you'd like to direct our listeners to before I let you go?

Thank you so much for your time today.

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